dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Paul » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 04:39:53



I have a Pioneer that has a bad spot in the speed adjust (needs replaced,
cleaning no workie).
 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Robert C. Boswort » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:11:16


Hey all -- just bought my first turntable, a dual 1009.  It is in fairly
good shape and sounded really nice at first, but now it seems to speed up
and slow down during songs.  It's not very dramatic, but can definitely be
heard.  Even with the pitch control turned all the way to the plus it still
sounds like it could be slightly slow.  How can I calibrate this, and how
can I start to diagnose the speed issues?

Thanks,

Rob

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Bob » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 03:00:12


Make or get a stroboscope.  It's pretty much a no-cost item.  That will tell
you what the speed is, maybe there is a built in strobe.

Problems usually relate to idler wheel getting old and losing its
elasticity.  Maybe some cleaning and lubrication on the turntable bearing.
Sometimes lube gets on the motor shaft and it slips.

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Buck Frobishe » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 03:13:54




Quote:
> Hey all -- just bought my first turntable, a dual 1009.  It is in fairly
> good shape and sounded really nice at first, but now it seems to speed up
> and slow down during songs.  It's not very dramatic, but can definitely be
> heard.  Even with the pitch control turned all the way to the plus it
still
> sounds like it could be slightly slow.  How can I calibrate this, and how
> can I start to diagnose the speed issues?

> Thanks,

> Rob

Hi there.  As already mentioned, bad idler (they can have the tire replaced)
and/or gummy gears.  Have a look at
http://www.compassnet.com/concept/index.html for a listing of service
places.

Or ask questions here, lots of phono buffs.

--
"Stay calm.  Be brave.  Wait for the signs."

regards,

Frank Johansen
Aurora, Ontario

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Tweetlde » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 09:44:14




Quote:
> Hey all -- just bought my first turntable, a dual 1009.  It is in fairly
> good shape and sounded really nice at first, but now it seems to speed up
> and slow down during songs.  It's not very dramatic, but can definitely be
> heard.  Even with the pitch control turned all the way to the plus it
> still sounds like it could be slightly slow.  How can I calibrate this,
> and how can I start to diagnose the speed issues?

> Thanks,

> Rob

As Bob suggested, a strobe disk is a great tool for checking turntable
speed.  I still have the one that came with my Dual 1019 of 1966 vintage.  I
can scan it and send an image to you.  You can print it, cut it out, put it
onto the spindle, put the turntable under a fluorescent lamp, and watch the
little bars.  They will appear to move if the turntable is off speed, but
will stand still when the speed is right on.  Let me know if you want a copy
of the disk..

There are two likely causes for your problem... a weak drive belt, or dry
motor bushings.
Take a look at
http://www.turntableneedles.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Categor...
for a new belt for your Dual 1009.  That's likely the cause of your problem.
If the turntable has been in storage for a number of years, it's possible
that the motor could use a little lubrication.  A couple drops of light
machine oil (3-In-One) around the shaft won't hurt.  Be sure to oil the
inner bushing.  You might have to partially disassemble the motor to get to
it, but it may be the only way to get to get the oil into the bushing.

Cheers!!!!
Dave M

Never take a laxative and a sleeping pill at the same time!!

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Bill » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:06:49


Quote:

> As Bob suggested, a strobe disk is a great tool for checking turntable
> speed.  I still have the one that came with my Dual 1019 of 1966 vintage.  I
> can scan it and send an image to you.  You can print it, cut it out, put it
> onto the spindle, put the turntable under a fluorescent lamp, and watch the
> little bars.  They will appear to move if the turntable is off speed, but
> will stand still when the speed is right on.  Let me know if you want a copy
> of the disk..

Here's one.
http://www.extremephono.com/ftp/60Hz.PDF
 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by John Ston » Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:42:31




Quote:

> As Bob suggested, a strobe disk is a great tool for checking turntable
> speed.  I still have the one that came with my Dual 1019 of 1966 vintage.  I
> can scan it and send an image to you.  You can print it, cut it out, put it
> onto the spindle, put the turntable under a fluorescent lamp, and watch the
> little bars.  They will appear to move if the turntable is off speed, but
> will stand still when the speed is right on.  Let me know if you want a copy
> of the disk..

> There are two likely causes for your problem... a weak drive belt, or dry
> motor bushings.
> Take a look at
> http://www.turntableneedles.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Categor...
> for a new belt for your Dual 1009.  That's likely the cause of your problem.

Except for one minor problem: The Dual 1009 doesn't have a belt. It's an
idler drive table-and an old one at that. That site is worthless.
 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by gbra » Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:51:34


Quote:
> > for a new belt for your Dual 1009.  That's likely the cause of your problem.

> Except for one minor problem: The Dual 1009 doesn't have a belt. It's an
> idler drive table-and an old one at that. That site is worthless.

Jeeze....some people are so picky...*LOL*
 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Robert C. Boswort » Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:19:36


Thanks alot for the advice.  I've seen the strobes on newer models, but
never quite understood how they worked.  I can print out that pattern at
60hz and any fluorescent light will flicker at that speed?

Thanks,

Rob


Quote:


>> Hey all -- just bought my first turntable, a dual 1009.  It is in fairly
>> good shape and sounded really nice at first, but now it seems to speed up
>> and slow down during songs.  It's not very dramatic, but can definitely
>> be heard.  Even with the pitch control turned all the way to the plus it
>> still sounds like it could be slightly slow.  How can I calibrate this,
>> and how can I start to diagnose the speed issues?

>> Thanks,

>> Rob

> As Bob suggested, a strobe disk is a great tool for checking turntable
> speed.  I still have the one that came with my Dual 1019 of 1966 vintage.
> I can scan it and send an image to you.  You can print it, cut it out, put
> it onto the spindle, put the turntable under a fluorescent lamp, and watch
> the little bars.  They will appear to move if the turntable is off speed,
> but will stand still when the speed is right on.  Let me know if you want
> a copy of the disk..

> There are two likely causes for your problem... a weak drive belt, or dry
> motor bushings.
> Take a look at
> http://www.turntableneedles.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Categor...
> for a new belt for your Dual 1009.  That's likely the cause of your
> problem. If the turntable has been in storage for a number of years, it's
> possible that the motor could use a little lubrication.  A couple drops of
> light machine oil (3-In-One) around the shaft won't hurt.  Be sure to oil
> the inner bushing.  You might have to partially disassemble the motor to
> get to it, but it may be the only way to get to get the oil into the
> bushing.

> Cheers!!!!
> Dave M

> Never take a laxative and a sleeping pill at the same time!!

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Jeffrey D Angu » Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:35:12


Quote:

> Here's one.
> http://www.extremephono.com/ftp/60Hz.PDF

> Thanks alot for the advice.  I've seen the strobes on newer models, but
> never quite understood how they worked.  I can print out that pattern at
> 60hz and any fluorescent light will flicker at that speed?

Yuppers, that's how they work. You don't notice the flicker,
although some people are sensitive to it. But you will watch
the strobe pattern move if the turntable speed is off.

Jeff

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
  safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
Tara Morice as Fran, from the movie "Strictly Ballroom"
http://www.grendel.com

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Bill Sheppa » Thu, 02 Dec 2004 01:43:13


Quote:
>I can print out that pattern at 60hz and
>any fluorescent light will flicker at that
>speed?

>Thanks,

>Rob

The principle of the strobe disc is that it's illuminated by light
that's already 'flickering' at a fixed 60 (or 120) cps rate. When the
turntable is exactly on-speed, the bars appear to be stationary. If
speed is the least bit off, they will appear to drift in one direction
or the other, depending on whether the speed is fast or slow.
                Some high end turntables had this bullt in, illuminated
by a neon bulb, along with a speed control so you could exactly 'stop'
the bars and thus be exactly on speed.
               Bill(oc)    
 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Richard Steinfel » Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:07:37


You sure it's a 1009? I recall that the 1009 has no pitch control
nor does it have antiskate. The 1009SK has antiskate, as I
recall, but adjustable speed was featured on the later 1019.

If it really is a variable speed model, check the idler wheel
retainer. It is a tiny polyethylene ring set into the recess in
the idler wheel. If that's missing, the idler will ride up on the
tapered motor shaft pulley.

Richard


in message

| Hey all -- just bought my first turntable, a dual 1009.  It is
in fairly
| good shape and sounded really nice at first, but now it seems
to speed up
| and slow down during songs.  It's not very dramatic, but can
definitely be
| heard.  Even with the pitch control turned all the way to the
plus it still
| sounds like it could be slightly slow.  How can I calibrate
this, and how
| can I start to diagnose the speed issues?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Rob
|
|

 
 
 

dual 1009 speeds up and slows down

Post by Richard Steinfel » Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:31:42




| You sure it's a 1009? I recall that the 1009 has no pitch
control
| nor does it have antiskate. The 1009SK has antiskate, as I
| recall, but adjustable speed was featured on the later 1019.
|
| If it really is a variable speed model, check the idler wheel
| retainer. It is a tiny polyethylene ring set into the recess in
| the idler wheel. If that's missing, the idler will ride up on
the
| tapered motor shaft pulley.
|
| Richard
|

Sorry 'bout that. I just checked the photo. It does have variable
speed. As I mentioned earlier, if the retaining ring is missing,
the idler's location along the motor pulley will vary, and your
singers will sound sick. Whether that's it or not, check that the
idler is running true by watching it while it runs against the
motor shaft. Hold in place with slight finger pressure against an
upward extension of the idler wheel's plate.

Another possible reason for upset stomach sound is that someone
replaced the idler with the wrong one. The wrong one has a thick
flat edge. The variable speed ones are tapered.

Many aftermarket idlers for these machines were made of grotty
*** that would go hard, and even turn horror-movie orange. A
good number of the original Dual replacement idlers were tilted
right out of the box, too. However, Dual's *** was good, and
I'm still using an idler wheel that's probably 30 years old and
perfect. Other people have made good suggestions for possible
reasons for bad running, too.

It's got a great motor. If you unsolder the motor, you can take
it apart and clean and relube the lower bearing. The proper oil
for the motor would be approximately a 10 wt motor oil, but not
more than 15w. The last time I lubed my motor, I used an
industrial oil described as a "light 20 weight" by the
manufacturer's rep. Lubrication is just fine with this, but the
machine has to run for 5 minutes to come up to speed.

I know of three people in the world who rebuild idler wheels and
can do a tapered Dual wheel like this. I believe that Bill Turner
on this group can do it. It should be handled carefully to avoid
bending the aluminum form that's under the ***. The bad
aftermarket wheels appear to have been made fine, just with bad
***. So, having a hard, cracked aftermarket wheel rebuilt
might be a good way to go if you need one. I don't know of any
source for the retaining rings. You might be able to make your
own by cutting a plug with a paper punch and drilling out the
center (the fit isn't critical). The genuine replacement idlers
were supplied with these retainers; the aftermarket wheels didn't
come with them. This ring snaps in place over a groove in the
idler's shaft.

Richard