Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by RedLio » Sat, 15 Mar 1997 04:00:00



I was installing freshly charged nicads in my Tx yesterday and had a bit of
a contact problem.  While resolving such, my multimeter showed that the
total voltage of the 8 batteries was 10 instead of 12 (as would be the case
with lead-acid).  I removed one nicad and saw that it was rated for only
1.25 volts.  So, the voltage delta in my Tx is 2.0v and 1.0v in the Rx.
Because the voltimeter on the Tx is calibrated for 12v, it shows only 83%
of full power and gives me the feeling that I'm low on "juice."  I at first
thought I had bought the wrong ones, but after looking through Tower's Big
Book I get the impression that *all* AA sized nicads are only 1.2 - 1.25
volts.

1.  Is it true that all AA nicads are 1.2 - 1.25 volts?

2.  Will/does this have any effect on the radio system's performance?

3.  Is the discharge rate (discharge/time = amperage?) more important than
the voltage?

4. What is, how much is, where is the best AA nicad I can buy?

5.  I want *standard* batteries with big ***s and flat butts:  tabbed or
non-tabbed?

(I realize the temptation, but no jokes on #5, please!)

Thanks in advance for the help!

-------
RedLion

Howard L. King

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Rick Russel » Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:00:00


I used Ni-Cd cells in my radio for years and still do for playing around or
practice, but when the competition is stiff and the racing is hot, I will
use the others.  I just go out to the Price/Costco and get the giant pack
of Duracell's  "AA 20 superpack.  According to the test in RCCA the
Duracell's lasted longest.  

--
Rick

www.wave.net/upg/doublestrike

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Edmond Ka Man Won » Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
> 1.  Is it true that all AA nicads are 1.2 - 1.25 volts?

Yup!

Quote:
> 2.  Will/does this have any effect on the radio system's performance?

Depends on the brand of radio.. Long time ago, I read a report that
concern this problem, the people tested the Futaba, Airtronic and JR
Propo..I have forgot the result, but I remember that  all of them have
shorter range if they use NICAD.. one brand even have only about 50% of
normal range..

What radio you are using.. Trinity made some TX pack using 9 Nicad..
which have 11.25-10.8 Volts.. somewhat better than 9.8V..

P.S. My KO EX1 is configered to use 8Nicad or 7 1.5V..
the manual suggest that if we use 1.5V cells.. only use 7 new one and put
a one dead 1.5V

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Lee Ca » Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> I was installing freshly charged nicads in my Tx yesterday and had a bit of
> a contact problem.  While resolving such, my multimeter showed that the
> total voltage of the 8 batteries was 10 instead of 12 (as would be the case
> with lead-acid).  I removed one nicad and saw that it was rated for only
> 1.25 volts.  So, the voltage delta in my Tx is 2.0v and 1.0v in the Rx.
> Because the voltimeter on the Tx is calibrated for 12v, it shows only 83%
> of full power and gives me the feeling that I'm low on "juice."  I at first
> thought I had bought the wrong ones, but after looking through Tower's Big
> Book I get the impression that *all* AA sized nicads are only 1.2 - 1.25
> volts.

> 1.  Is it true that all AA nicads are 1.2 - 1.25 volts?

They say it's 1.25V.  Theoretically, it's 1.2 volts.  And depending
on the load, it could be a 1.1V average during the discharge cycle.

Quote:
> 2.  Will/does this have any effect on the radio system's performance?

Lower range definitely.  But you should be fine.  Nominally, 8 cells
yeild a 9.6V pack, which is close enough to 12V.  Personally, I just
use AA Alkalines since you don't replace trasmitter/receiver batteries
that often anyway.

Quote:
> 3.  Is the discharge rate (discharge/time = amperage?) more important than
> the voltage?

Depends on the application.  For a radio system, where the current draw
is pretty small, I think maintaining a proper voltage is more important
because it gives you longer range.  Even if you hooked a pack of 10
Trinity VIS-MATCH RS2000 cells to your transmitter, it is still going
to give you the same range as 8 AA Alkaline batteries.

Quote:
> 4. What is, how much is, where is the best AA nicad I can buy?

Them yellow Sanyo 600ma ones are probably the best you can get your
hands on.  But since no Ni-Cad can produce more than 1.2V per cell,
switching brands/models won't help you as long as you are using
Ni-Cad batteries.

Quote:
> 5.  I want *standard* batteries with big ***s and flat butts:  tabbed or
> non-tabbed?

Non-tabbed.  Tabbed ones are for when you want to put together a
pack.  

Quote:

> (I realize the temptation, but no jokes on #5, please!)

In the end, I recommend plain old Alkaline for transmitter/receiver
batteries.  It gives you the voltage you want and I last really
long since the current draw is so small.  I've been using a set
since the beginning of the year.

Quote:
> Thanks in advance for the help!

> -------
> RedLion

> Howard L. King


--

Lee Cao - http://www.FoundCollection.com/~ligeng

Amendment IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain
rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others
retained by the people.
Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by
the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Lee Ca » Sun, 16 Mar 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
> What radio you are using.. Trinity made some TX pack using 9 Nicad..
> which have 11.25-10.8 Volts.. somewhat better than 9.8V..

> P.S. My KO EX1 is configered to use 8Nicad or 7 1.5V..
> the manual suggest that if we use 1.5V cells.. only use 7 new one and put
> a one dead 1.5V

Most batteries have a lable on them warning you not to mix fresh and
dead batteries.  Radio Shack sells AA spacers that takes the place of
a regular AA battery.

--

Lee Cao - http://www.glue.umd.edu/~ligeng

Amendment IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain
rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others
retained by the people.
Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by
the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by James A. Colli » Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>1.  Is it true that all AA nicads are 1.2 - 1.25 volts?

Yes.

Quote:
>2.  Will/does this have any effect on the radio system's performance?

Yes, your range will be less.  Also, I have seen cases where the lower
the power you have, the more susceptible to glitching you are.  Ie.  I
have seen racers that were having bad glitching problems, replace the
batteries with Duracells and the glitching dissappeared.  I have also
seen a case where two guys were on close channels (ie. 89 and 90) and
one was having glitching problems from the other.  The guy with the
problems put alkalines in and stopped having problems (of course, the
other guy started having problems then... :) ).

Quote:
>3.  Is the discharge rate (discharge/time = amperage?) more important than
>the voltage?

I'd say both are important... :)  You want batteries that will keep
their voltage as high as possible as long as possible.  You can have
batteries with a long discharge rate, but if they are down to .7
volts, it won't do you any good.  Especially with nicads, which are
low to begin with...

Quote:
>4. What is, how much is, where is the best AA nicad I can buy?

Usually, the better ones are the Sanyo's.  I have seen 600's go for 2
bucks a cell.

Personally, I use Renewals.  They have the power of alkalines, but
with the rechargeability of nicads.  You can only recharge them around
20-25 times or so, but that is 20-25 times more than a regular
alkaline... :)  They last for several racenights for me, and I have a
spare set of Duracells just in case (I had a case at the last NORRCA
race where the Renewals didn't give me the range that the Duracells
did).

James

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Blue Ic » Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>4. What is, how much is, where is the best AA nicad I can buy?

> Usually, the better ones are the Sanyo's.  I have seen 600's go for 2
bucks a cell.
> Personally, I use Renewals.  

<SNIP>

If you can get your hands on them I suggest trying either Duracell
Pro-Cells of Energizer Industrial...They are a bit more expensive but I
have a full load of them (the energizers) in my transmitter and it has yet
to come off the high reading..
 I work for an Audio visual company and we use the Pro-Cells exclusively in
our Wireless Microphones and they will hold up through 2 days of average
useage..most 9-V cells will give up after 1 day of use...
 although we have to order them directly by the case load...you might find
them retail...

Just a thought
John Hartman

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Dennis Cla » Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:00:00


: I used Ni-Cd cells in my radio for years and still do for playing around or
: practice, but when the competition is stiff and the racing is hot, I will
: use the others.  I just go out to the Price/Costco and get the giant pack
: of Duracell's  "AA 20 superpack.  According to the test in RCCA the
: Duracell's lasted longest.  

  I just got a bunch of the Rayovac rechargeable alkalines and a Rayovac
charger for them.  These will have dry cell voltages, but be rechargeable
several times.  The jury is still out as to whether this works or not...

: --
: Rick

: www.wave.net/upg/doublestrike

DLC
--
------------------------------------------------------------

| Be well, Do good work, stay in touch -- Garrison Keillor |
------------------------- CUT HERE -------------------------

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by ndo.. » Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>   I just got a bunch of the Rayovac rechargeable alkalines and a Rayovac
> charger for them.  These will have dry cell voltages, but be rechargeable
> several times.  The jury is still out as to whether this works or not...

Hey! Give us an update on this in a month or two, will ya? Also, do you
think these rechangeable alkalines might be charged from our regular race
pack chargers? Maybe on trickle or a real low amp setting. What do you
think? I think I'll check 'em out and see what kind of charge rate they
can handle.
 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by ndo.. » Tue, 18 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

> 1.  Is it true that all AA nicads are 1.2 - 1.25 volts?

Yes. Ni-cad cells have a nominal voltage of 1.2. Alkaline or lead-acid
cells have a norminal voltage of 1.5. That is standard.

Quote:
> 2.  Will/does this have any effect on the radio system's performance?

Yes. My Airtronics 3P radios are designed to operate at 12v. That is
usually attained with 8 alkaline cells. With fresh alkalines my gague
reads arond 11.8v If I use 8 ni-cads I get only 9.6v. The guage usually
reads around 10.2v. With the ni-cads I can detect a reduction in
transmitter range. I beleive it does make a difference. To combat this, I
made up a pack with 9 ni-cads. I get about 11.3 v with a fully charged
pack of 9 ni-cads and my transmitter range is better.

Quote:
> 3.  Is the discharge rate (discharge/time = amperage?) more important than the voltage?

The voltage is the most important.

Quote:
> 4. What is, how much is, where is the best AA nicad I can buy?

Sanyo, 850mah cells. I don't know the cost off hand. Good ni-cads can be
bought at most good hobby stores or specialty electronics stores.

Quote:
> 5.  I want *standard* batteries with big ***s and flat butts:  tabbed or non-tabbed?

Sanyo doesn't make "good" cells with the big ***s. You can get cells
with big ***s by Ever-Ready and Duracell, and even Radio Shack. They
work just OK, but they are not real "good" cells. They will be OK if your
are on a low budget.
 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Bridgeton Netop » Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> : I used Ni-Cd cells in my radio for years and still do for playing around or
> : practice, but when the competition is stiff and the racing is hot, I will
> : use the others.  I just go out to the Price/Costco and get the giant pack
> : of Duracell's  "AA 20 superpack.  According to the test in RCCA the
> : Duracell's lasted longest.

>   I just got a bunch of the Rayovac rechargeable alkalines and a Rayovac
> charger for them.  These will have dry cell voltages, but be rechargeable
> several times.  The jury is still out as to whether this works or not...

> : --

Well I've been using the Renewals for 5 months and They have been great.
The nicest thing for those of us electric guys is you don't have to be
afraid to recharge them.  According to the instructions the more you
charge them without discharging below  60% the longer they will live.
Who goes to the track with transmitter batts at less than 90% or 100%.
SHAME ON YOU!
These are just the oposit of our beloved nicads.
 Bob T.
 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Barry Burke Jr » Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:00:00


Quote:
> If you can get your hands on them I suggest trying either Duracell
> Pro-Cells of Energizer Industrial...They are a bit more expensive but I
> have a full load of them (the energizers) in my transmitter and it has yet
> to come off the high reading..
>  I work for an Audio visual company and we use the Pro-Cells exclusively in
> our Wireless Microphones and they will hold up through 2 days of average
> useage..most 9-V cells will give up after 1 day of use...
>  although we have to order them directly by the case load...you might find
> them retail...

I spent 10 years as a live sound engineer, and the Duracells (regular +
ProCells) lasted way longer than any other 9V batteries in a wireless
transmitting device.

But, what I found out was the discharge curve of a wireless suited those
batteries best.  The Duracell products seem to have a flat discharge
voltage curve, then a sharp drop off.  The Energizers (which sucked in
mics <G>) have a smooth slope towards dead.

It all depends what you are looking for.  The Energizers gave more of a
warning, and the Duracells had a longer "full power" period.

Barry

--
_________________________________________________

               Barry Burke Jr.

                  AMA 527650    

  Radios, Airplanes, Computers and MORE Radios!
_________________________________________________

 
 
 

Delta Voltage: NiCad vs. PbAcid

Post by Mike Begling » Tue, 25 Mar 1997 04:00:00


: Yes. Ni-cad cells have a nominal voltage of 1.2. Alkaline or lead-acid
: cells have a norminal voltage of 1.5. That is standard.

Actually....  lead-acid batteries have a nominal cell voltage of 2.0 volts...

-Mike