Green Machine and blue smoke

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by solar » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 03:38:24



Hi.

Decited to try stock's for a change (had my eye on hot mod's
before) and bought a new GM3, after 3-4 minutes it began to
slow like batteries were dead (good batteries, Corally's 2400
Street).. Got down and noticed a really bad smell, looked the
car and it smoked like a cigarette, thick blue smoke.

Oh well, thought that some *** or something from carpets
got to the motor or something. And thought that it was so warm
because of my gearing, running Street Weapon, 24 pinion and
something like 75-80 spur gear (82 is stock). It was fairly fast
track.

Got the car to the pit, opened the motor, found out that the
brushes and comm were ok, just like it was straight from box.
Just put a 21 or a 22-tooth pinion in and changed the batteries.

Hit the track and did not get even two rounds when the car
started jamming up again. Stopped and took a looooong look
at the car as it smoked like a moped..

Took the motor off the car again and cursed for a moment..
While i was putting my mod motor together, one of our club's
men noticed what's wrong on the motor - one of the wire "packs"
had fried. Actually it got so hot that the lacquire on wires had
melted and spread over the armature..

Sh*t happens..

Solar4
-Who dies with most toys, wins-

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Tom » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:08:57


Quote:

> Hi.

> Decited to try stock's for a change (had my eye on hot mod's
> before) and bought a new GM3, after 3-4 minutes it began to
> slow like batteries were dead (good batteries, Corally's 2400
> Street).. Got down and noticed a really bad smell, looked the
> car and it smoked like a cigarette, thick blue smoke.

Sounds like you cooked a wind.

(*SNIP!*)

Quote:

> Took the motor off the car again and cursed for a moment..
> While i was putting my mod motor together, one of our club's
> men noticed what's wrong on the motor - one of the wire "packs"
> had fried. Actually it got so hot that the lacquire on wires had
> melted and spread over the armature..

Yep.  That's what you did.

What happens is the windings heat up, causing the laquer to melt, allowing
a short circuit to form in one of the windings.  Your motor then acts as
though it were a Chevy Sprint running on 2 out of the 3 cylinders.

Some modern stock motors are designed to have very little iron in the
armature stack.  This means that the motors will rev very high for a stock
motor, but they will also draw lots of current.  The lack of metal in the
stack also means the windings will not cool as effectively.  All of this
adds up to a very unreliable motor.

But, such it is with the times. . .  That's one of the reasons why we run
a handout motor in our club.

___
TTTTT   OO   M   M The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick.   |~~~|

  T    O  O  M M M So if it is in it or if it is on it, it is     *  
  T     OO   M   M        as it is, be it in it or on it.        `-'

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Joseph Cisnero » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:51:32


Welcome to the Club :)

I cooked my first armature on a GM3P about 3 weeks ago..

I was running my to long and too hot. I noticed the same smoke and stench as
well..

Nothing that 13.79 from Tower didn't fix ;)

Smokin' Joe


Quote:
> Hi.

> Decited to try stock's for a change (had my eye on hot mod's
> before) and bought a new GM3, after 3-4 minutes it began to
> slow like batteries were dead (good batteries, Corally's 2400
> Street).. Got down and noticed a really bad smell, looked the
> car and it smoked like a cigarette, thick blue smoke.

> Oh well, thought that some *** or something from carpets
> got to the motor or something. And thought that it was so warm
> because of my gearing, running Street Weapon, 24 pinion and
> something like 75-80 spur gear (82 is stock). It was fairly fast
> track.

> Got the car to the pit, opened the motor, found out that the
> brushes and comm were ok, just like it was straight from box.
> Just put a 21 or a 22-tooth pinion in and changed the batteries.

> Hit the track and did not get even two rounds when the car
> started jamming up again. Stopped and took a looooong look
> at the car as it smoked like a moped..

> Took the motor off the car again and cursed for a moment..
> While i was putting my mod motor together, one of our club's
> men noticed what's wrong on the motor - one of the wire "packs"
> had fried. Actually it got so hot that the lacquire on wires had
> melted and spread over the armature..

> Sh*t happens..

> Solar4
> -Who dies with most toys, wins-

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by solar » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:13:52


Quote:
>> Took the motor off the car again and cursed for a moment..
>> While i was putting my mod motor together, one of our club's
>> men noticed what's wrong on the motor - one of the wire "packs"
>> had fried. Actually it got so hot that the lacquire on wires had
>> melted and spread over the armature..

>Yep.  That's what you did.

>What happens is the windings heat up, causing the laquer to melt, allowing
>a short circuit to form in one of the windings.  Your motor then acts as
>though it were a Chevy Sprint running on 2 out of the 3 cylinders.

>Some modern stock motors are designed to have very little iron in the
>armature stack.  This means that the motors will rev very high for a stock
>motor, but they will also draw lots of current.  The lack of metal in the
>stack also means the windings will not cool as effectively.  All of this
>adds up to a very unreliable motor.

>But, such it is with the times. . .  That's one of the reasons why we run
>a handout motor in our club.

Uh, okay.. What's your oppinion, can i request a new motor? I have not
EVER heard that a motor fries in first run.. Actually i have busted few
motors
myself and have seen several motors with fried brushes / comm, but never
heard of a winding fry. And besides, it was not overgeared, the Weapon
manual suggests 24 tooth pinion for stock motors, so..

When i begun R/C hobby, i completely fried off two motors, a Kyosho and
Peak modified.. Neither busted windings, but both motors heated up so
bad that the solder in connector wires melted causing the wire to fell off.
Decited to detecade both motors as just magnets, afted taking the ball
bearings, that is.. :-)

Hmm.. "hand out" .. the little pea between my ears is at the moment offline,
so could you explain a little. My english isn't at it's best at the
evening..

Solar4

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Tumblewee » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:21:49



Quote:
> ...car and it smoked like a cigarette, thick blue smoke.

> ...at the car as it smoked like a moped..

You're running too rich. Close off your main mix needle a few dozen turns,
and try a hotter glowplug.

heh

- Tw

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Tom » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:19:09


Quote:

> Uh, okay.. What's your oppinion, can i request a new motor? I have not
> EVER heard that a motor fries in first run.. Actually i have busted few
> motors
> myself and have seen several motors with fried brushes / comm, but never
> heard of a winding fry. And besides, it was not overgeared, the Weapon
> manual suggests 24 tooth pinion for stock motors, so..

Apparently, these motors are known for cooking easily (according to the
recent postings by Hank IIRC).  I explained why they cook easily abouve
(which I trimmed).  I doubt you'll get any recourse trying to return it;
remember the latin phrase "caveat emptor" (buyer beware).

Quote:

> When i begun R/C hobby, i completely fried off two motors, a Kyosho and
> Peak modified.. Neither busted windings, but both motors heated up so
> bad that the solder in connector wires melted causing the wire to fell off.
> Decited to detecade both motors as just magnets, afted taking the ball
> bearings, that is.. :-)

Yeesh!  That takes a bit of work (getting motors that hot).  I've got
plenty of fridge magnets myself; mostly from old useless hand-out stock
motors.

Quote:

> Hmm.. "hand out" .. the little pea between my ears is at the moment offline,
> so could you explain a little. My english isn't at it's best at the
> evening..

At the beginning of the season, our club purchased a box of motors (all
identical).  If you want to run with us, you've got to purchase a club
membership.  Included with your club membership is a motor; you must run
this motor.

This way, everyone runs the same motor, and we get the motors for a
reasonable price.  We don't have a hobby shop around here, so it's up to
us to make up our own guidelines on running our track.

The motor we got is a variation on the Midnight II rebuildable stock
motor, except the endbells are blue, and the label on the armature ends in
"H", indicating it is the Trinity Handout motor.  These motors can only be
purchase in a minimum order of 24, so the only source of the motors around
here is our club.

This practise has ended the "motor of the week" syndrome in these parts,
and they're good, reliable motors too.

___
TTTTT   OO   M   M The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick.   |~~~|

  T    O  O  M M M So if it is in it or if it is on it, it is     *  
  T     OO   M   M        as it is, be it in it or on it.        `-'

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Martin in Maryla » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:05:27


Quote:
>You're running too rich. Close off your main mix needle a few dozen turns,
>and try a hotter glowplug.

Sounds like a bad oil ring to me.  

Martin
Team RCV Member
http://rcvehicles.about.com

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by solar » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:10:57


Quote:
>> Uh, okay.. What's your oppinion, can i request a new motor? I have not
>> EVER heard that a motor fries in first run.. Actually i have busted few
>> motors
>> myself and have seen several motors with fried brushes / comm, but never
>> heard of a winding fry. And besides, it was not overgeared, the Weapon
>> manual suggests 24 tooth pinion for stock motors, so..

>Apparently, these motors are known for cooking easily (according to the
>recent postings by Hank IIRC).  I explained why they cook easily abouve
>(which I trimmed).  I doubt you'll get any recourse trying to return it;
>remember the latin phrase "caveat emptor" (buyer beware).

Well, back to modified. Actually, i have never preferred stocks, but because
of the level of drivers at mod, i thought to give stock a try. Well, that
was it,
three minutes and 260 FIM - $40. If i only lived in US, the promiced country
of cheap mailorder R/C products, but no, in snowy scandinavia.

Quote:
>> When i begun R/C hobby, i completely fried off two motors, a Kyosho and
>> Peak modified.. Neither busted windings, but both motors heated up so
>> bad that the solder in connector wires melted causing the wire to fell
off.
>> Decited to detecade both motors as just magnets, afted taking the ball
>> bearings, that is.. :-)

>Yeesh!  That takes a bit of work (getting motors that hot).  I've got
>plenty of fridge magnets myself; mostly from old useless hand-out stock
>motors.

Practise makes a winner ;-)

Quote:
>> Hmm.. "hand out" .. the little pea between my ears is at the moment
offline,
>> so could you explain a little. My english isn't at it's best at the
>> evening..

>At the beginning of the season, our club purchased a box of motors (all
>identical).  If you want to run with us, you've got to purchase a club
>membership.  Included with your club membership is a motor; you must run
>this motor.

Sounds like good competition to me. Not so good for them, who are racing
modified, but basicly everybody learns more that way. When speaking of
national level, like EFRA 2002 rules, motor limitations are bad.. Then the
winner most likely is the one, who has the best motor and is willing to
torture
the comm with silver brushes. Expensive? Extremely.
But actually i would be glad if our club had same sort of "rules"..

Solar4

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by solar » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:13:04


Quote:
>I cooked my first armature on a GM3P about 3 weeks ago..
>I was running my to long and too hot. I noticed the same smoke and stench
as
>well..
>Nothing that 13.79 from Tower didn't fix ;)

But hell, i had the same gear ratios that Losi suggest in their manual and a
tooth lower than guys that run GM3 with TC3.. So gearing should not be the
problem..

Solar4

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Joseph Cisnero » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:38:31


Well I had mine in a Rustler. So needless to say, it had too much plastic
around the motor, so all the heat as being insulated right around it. Also
was running a 7cell battery to see how it would run. Not good. So those
7cells are now 6.

I have since gone to a Factory Team T3 and have had no problems with an
87/20 combo.

Joe


Quote:
> >I cooked my first armature on a GM3P about 3 weeks ago..
> >I was running my to long and too hot. I noticed the same smoke and stench
> as
> >well..
> >Nothing that 13.79 from Tower didn't fix ;)

> But hell, i had the same gear ratios that Losi suggest in their manual and
a
> tooth lower than guys that run GM3 with TC3.. So gearing should not be the
> problem..

> Solar4

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by solar » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:08:36


Quote:
>> >I cooked my first armature on a GM3P about 3 weeks ago..
>> >I was running my to long and too hot. I noticed the same smoke and
stench
>> >as well..
>> >Nothing that 13.79 from Tower didn't fix ;)
>> But hell, i had the same gear ratios that Losi suggest in their manual
and
>> a tooth lower than guys that run GM3 with TC3.. So gearing should not be
>> the problem..
>Well I had mine in a Rustler. So needless to say, it had too much plastic
>around the motor, so all the heat as being insulated right around it. Also
>was running a 7cell battery to see how it would run. Not good. So those
>7cells are now 6.
>I have since gone to a Factory Team T3 and have had no problems with an
>87/20 combo.

The fu*kin' motor started to bug me. I had a large aluminum heat sink on it
and for my recollection the Losi's yellow spur gear (witch is installed on
my
car) is actually LARGER than original 78 tooth.. So neither the gearing and
cooling should not be an issue. And all other electrics are okay, since i
drove
three batteries with mod motor after the GM3 smoked.

Oh well, like they say, electrics work on smoke. Once it gets out, the
device
no longer works.

Solar4
-Who dies with most toys, wins-

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Rowdy » Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:44:54


Cute, TW.

I just got my first Nitro truck (RC10GT) and don't miss the smell of burning
electrics...

RB

--
--
Lea, Macy, Melanie and Greg

www.bartlettmedia.com

Quote:



> > ...car and it smoked like a cigarette, thick blue smoke.

> > ...at the car as it smoked like a moped..

> You're running too rich. Close off your main mix needle a few dozen turns,
> and try a hotter glowplug.

> heh

> - Tw

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Tumblewee » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:09:52


Well, I figured that in leiu of actually being able to help the poor guy,
maybe I could give him a chuckle...

8)

- Tw


Quote:
> Cute, TW.

> I just got my first Nitro truck (RC10GT) and don't miss the smell of
burning
> electrics...

> RB

 
 
 

Green Machine and blue smoke

Post by Tom » Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:08:00


Quote:

> >I cooked my first armature on a GM3P about 3 weeks ago..
> >I was running my to long and too hot. I noticed the same smoke and stench
> as
> >well..
> >Nothing that 13.79 from Tower didn't fix ;)

> But hell, i had the same gear ratios that Losi suggest in their manual and a
> tooth lower than guys that run GM3 with TC3.. So gearing should not be the
> problem..

That's just a starting gear ratio.  Your particular track conditions will
vary the ideal gear ratio.  Apparently they were anticipating a much more
open track than you run at.

___
TTTTT   OO   M   M The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick.   |~~~|

  T    O  O  M M M So if it is in it or if it is on it, it is     *  
  T     OO   M   M        as it is, be it in it or on it.        `-'