USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Victor Mant » Sun, 03 Feb 2013 23:21:31



"The Postal Service requires its employees to obey all traffic laws and
rules while operating Postal Service vehicles. However, the state and/or
local ordinances imposing penalties and fines cannot be enforced as against
the Postal Service."

East Cleveland Mayor Gary Norton said he was flummoxed.

"I was unaware that the Post Office doesn't have to stop at red lights or
obey the speed limit," he said. "But since they are, I wish I'd get my mail
faster."

Source:
http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2013/02/us_postal_service_w...

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

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USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Sir F.A. Rie » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 00:39:05


Quote:
>"I was unaware that the Post Office doesn't have to stop at red lights or
>obey the speed limit," he said. "But since they are, I wish I'd get my mail
>faster."
>http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2013/02/us_postal_service_w...

Correct a far as the brainless reporter could understand.
The POST OFFICE [aka USPS] can not be fined, but each DRIVER can be!
Just as, if they cause an accident, they can be held responsible.

 
 
 

USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Jeffry Johnso » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 02:20:47


Note that these civil (not criminal) infractions are from traffic cameras.  East Cleveland has numerous traffic cameras placed at school zones.  East Cleveland enforces the 20 miles per hour school zone speed limit from dawn to dusk.  If school is closed and no students outside, East Cleveland still mails speeding infractions to the vehicle owners.
 
 
 

USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Victor Mant » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 13:13:35




Quote:
>>"I was unaware that the Post Office doesn't have to stop at red lights or
>>obey the speed limit," he said. "But since they are, I wish I'd get my
>>mail
>>faster."
>>http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2013/02/us_postal_service_w...
> Correct a far as the brainless reporter could understand.
> The POST OFFICE [aka USPS] can not be fined, but each DRIVER can be!
> Just as, if they cause an accident, they can be held responsible.

"The notorious East Cleveland traffic cameras nabbed U.S. Postal Service
Vehicles breaking the law seven times and sent a notice to the Post Office
on Broadway with the bad news every driver hates to see: a picture of the
infraction and a demand for payment ...

Norton said if an individual driving a mail vehicle was stopped by a police
officer, the individual would be responsible.

He wonders why the post office dodged instead of giving up the culprits."

I wonder too.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

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USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Victor Mant » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 14:25:21



Quote:
> Note that these civil (not criminal) infractions are from traffic cameras.
> East Cleveland has numerous traffic cameras placed at school zones.  East
> Cleveland enforces the 20 miles per hour school zone speed limit from dawn
> to dusk.  If school is closed and no students outside, East Cleveland
> still mails speeding infractions to the vehicle owners.

Is this, by chance, an excuse for everyone, in postal vehicles or not, for
speeding near schools?

I wonder if we should expect that the traffic cameras somehow follow the
students present in the school zones and react intelligently. This would be
a real technological breakthrough and it would deserve a commemorative
stamp!

Ref.:
http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2013/02/us_postal_service_w...

--
Victor Manta

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USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Sir F.A. Rie » Tue, 05 Feb 2013 01:22:25


Quote:
>"The notorious East Cleveland traffic cameras nabbed U.S. Postal Service
>Vehicles breaking the law seven times and sent a notice to the Post Office
>on Broadway with the bad news every driver hates to see: a picture of the
>infraction and a demand for payment ...

Which they will not get.

Quote:
>Norton said if an individual driving a mail vehicle was stopped by a police
>officer, the individual would be responsible.

Precisely !

Quote:
>He wonders why the post office dodged instead of giving up the culprits."

The cops have to ID the driver, it is NOT up to a company to become
police. Another example of the failure of the 'system' in that
presumption of guilt is made first and that everyone must 'snitch'.
 
 
 

USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Sir F.A. Rie » Tue, 05 Feb 2013 01:24:19


Quote:
>I wonder if we should expect that the traffic cameras somehow follow the
>students present in the school zones and react intelligently. This would be
>a real technological breakthrough and it would deserve a commemorative
>stamp!

Most school zone cameras are turned on 1/2 hour before class and off
1/2 hour after. I'd suggest that the citizenry of the location get on
their councilmen's 'backs' and have the 'law' adjusted!

If you don't take an active part in your local gummint, then DON'T
***!

 
 
 

USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Victor Mant » Tue, 05 Feb 2013 05:02:56




Quote:
>>"The notorious East Cleveland traffic cameras nabbed U.S. Postal Service
>>Vehicles breaking the law seven times and sent a notice to the Post Office
>>on Broadway with the bad news every driver hates to see: a picture of the
>>infraction and a demand for payment ...
> Which they will not get.

>>Norton said if an individual driving a mail vehicle was stopped by a
>>police
>>officer, the individual would be responsible.
> Precisely !

>>He wonders why the post office dodged instead of giving up the culprits."
> The cops have to ID the driver, it is NOT up to a company to become
> police. Another example of the failure of the 'system' in that
> presumption of guilt is made first and that everyone must 'snitch'.

Yes, there is a valid "presumption of guilt", because it was pointed to by
an impartial traffic camera. The car's owner was clearly identified and it
was the USPS.

It is USPS's duty to report who was the driver, as it is the duty of any of
us who borrowed his car to somebody. If we don't do it, for any reason, we
are considered by law as being the driver himself, and we are considered
responsible for the consequences. The ownership of a car, that can be used
also as a deadly weapon, entails various responsibilities, like it or onot.

The speeding driver has a legal ways to defend himself, by using arguments
like a badly visible sign or a badly calibrated camera. This is the usual
scenario, and such arguments can or cannot convince a judge, the risk of the
driver being the increased costs of the whole procedure.

What is unusual in our case, and what brings us back to the subject of the
thread, is that the USPS seems to be excepted from the rule of law, due to
its alleged immunity from local traffic laws. I don't see why USPS should be
excepted, cars and drivers being in the whole world alike, but maybe
somebody can enlighten me on this subject.

BTW, I personally know the situation of the East Cleveland traffic, where
the 20 miles/hour zones are interspersed with a dense net of traffic lights,
a combination that can drive crazy some irascible drivers. Who doesn't like
this combination can try to change the law, as Sir Rien suggested in another
posting.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

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USPS - Immunity from local traffic laws

Post by Sir F.A. Rie » Wed, 06 Feb 2013 02:03:46


Quote:
>> The cops have to ID the driver, it is NOT up to a company to become
>> police. Another example of the failure of the 'system' in that
>> presumption of guilt is made first and that everyone must 'snitch'.

>Yes, there is a valid "presumption of guilt", because it was pointed to by
>an impartial traffic camera. The car's owner was clearly identified and it
>was the USPS.

>It is USPS's duty to report who was the driver, as it is the duty of any of
>us who borrowed his car to somebody. If we don't do it, for any reason, we
>are considered by law as being the driver himself, and we are considered
>responsible for the consequences. The ownership of a car, that can be used
>also as a deadly weapon, entails various responsibilities, like it or onot.

The cops 'consider' much that is against the Constitution. Judges
often go along, only to be overturned!

As an example, it is 'illegal' to lie to a cop. But it is 'considered'
legal to lie to a suspect to induce a supposed confession!

They also hide exculpating evidence, destroy records, etc.

Traffic cameras are 'evidence', and should not be confused with
'presumption of guilt', but then cops have such a poor performance
record ...!

Seattle cops ae under Federal scrutiny for abuse, so they are being
counseled and re-trained. Trained in how to beat up a suspect and NOT
leave marks and make sure there are NO cameras.

Same old, same old! Power corrupts. Absolutely!