what do you think

what do you think

Post by Winston Har » Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:59:33



I was wondering what people thought about the state of todays hobby of
sports card collecting.It appears to me that with the high price of
wax.People becoming more and more  unwilling to pay anything for
cards these days that the hobby is slowly sliping into a state of
total demise.I mean even the big dealers that open a lot of product
cannot continue to open a ton of wax and sell cards at 10%-15%
of guide and  still stay in buissness.I agree that the internet has
made it easier to be a collector.after all you have the whole world to
do buissness with now.But because you now have so many places to buy
the one or two cards that you need to finish off that set.And so many
different price ranges to choose from.It will soon make it hard for
the shops to stay afloat.I mean why buy packs at all.If you want a set
you can buy it anytime on line for 25% of guide.Which is about 150%
less than what it cost to build it.And than there is everybodys
friend.Dr.Beckett!!Would someone please tell me where and when a card,
I mean any card listed in Beckett sold for the price that they are
listed for.So my question is,if the price guide is not going to be
used,if no body is going to sell at those prices.Why do we all
continue to make that son-of-a-gun rich by buying his publication.
After all if you want to check on the state of the hobby.just check
the internet.And please,for those of you(us) that think his grading
service is not a conflict of interest than we are all asleep.I mean
how can someone grade a card and than say it is worth so much money.
And  make it apear that their service is surperior to everyone
elses.Just a few of my thoughts these days and I would love to hear
yours.I will answer each and every email I receive on this that is
sent to me direct.I do not answer replies to the board.
Thanks in advance,Winston B.Hart.

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what do you think

Post by Bob Boyla » Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:24:59


I agree with one point you made......when was the last time someone actually
bought a card at book price?  The only exception to that is when rookies
like Soriano take off. His cards are actually selling over book right now.
But with rookie cards, it is like the stock market.....but low....sell high
before he cools off.
As far as all the expensive wax out there goes, Upper Deck is going to do
bankrupt before anyone else. They continue to pump out the same product with
different names and at ONLY $70 a box wholesale.  I think Topps is doing it
right.....nice base product with all the possibilities of pulling something
like a '52 Mantle.  Same thing with Heritage. If you bought that product
direct......you made out like a bandit.
The hobby has gone round and round many times. If MLB would just stop the
mass production of the manufacturers, we'd have a much better hobby-life.
Limit each manufacturer to 3 products per year and you would pump up the
hobby again. Allowing them to make 10 products each with 2 series each just
plain stinks.

OK......I'm done......ANYONE ELSE???

Bob


Quote:
> I was wondering what people thought about the state of todays hobby of
> sports card collecting.It appears to me that with the high price of
> wax.People becoming more and more  unwilling to pay anything for
> cards these days that the hobby is slowly sliping into a state of
> total demise.I mean even the big dealers that open a lot of product
> cannot continue to open a ton of wax and sell cards at 10%-15%
> of guide and  still stay in buissness.I agree that the internet has
> made it easier to be a collector.after all you have the whole world to
> do buissness with now.But because you now have so many places to buy
> the one or two cards that you need to finish off that set.And so many
> different price ranges to choose from.It will soon make it hard for
> the shops to stay afloat.I mean why buy packs at all.If you want a set
> you can buy it anytime on line for 25% of guide.Which is about 150%
> less than what it cost to build it.And than there is everybodys
> friend.Dr.Beckett!!Would someone please tell me where and when a card,
> I mean any card listed in Beckett sold for the price that they are
> listed for.So my question is,if the price guide is not going to be
> used,if no body is going to sell at those prices.Why do we all
> continue to make that son-of-a-gun rich by buying his publication.
> After all if you want to check on the state of the hobby.just check
> the internet.And please,for those of you(us) that think his grading
> service is not a conflict of interest than we are all asleep.I mean
> how can someone grade a card and than say it is worth so much money.
> And  make it apear that their service is surperior to everyone
> elses.Just a few of my thoughts these days and I would love to hear
> yours.I will answer each and every email I receive on this that is
> sent to me direct.I do not answer replies to the board.
> Thanks in advance,Winston B.Hart.

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----


 
 
 

what do you think

Post by robert migneaul » Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:32:39


Good morning Winston,
    It appears we have no choice, the internet way to do business is the
way things are going...
I agree with the fact that some (many) products are priced quite high.
And you are right that dealers will not be able to open like they used to
in order to find that almighty rare item etc...  Some points you need to
keep in mind when evaluating the whole picture:
1.  Short story:  five years ago when I got into this hobby, I was
collecting sets that were numbered out of 10,000.  At the time I would
visit some of the biggest dealers across Canada and the United States and
made them aware of what I was looking for and what I was trying to
accomplish.  Most could not help me to complete my sets and went on to say
how 'rare' those cards were (in today's standards - "what a joke".  I've
since moved to rarer cards (1/1s) and find that anything numbered higher
than that is not worth much - needless to say my sets are worth
approximately nothing!?  On the other hand, I believe not too many people
have put any of these sets together.  They bring me joy of ownership and I
love to look at them every so often.  And, the internet has allowed me to
acquire those 'rare' cards that I was needing to complete my earlier sets.

2.    Dealers have to keep changing with the times.  In the early 90s they
would open products and sell both the inserts and the commons for whatever
price they wanted.  (Sounds to me like they just wanted to make money?!)
Now, they have to work harder and focus on selling packs - which takes
longer to generate a profit.  They also need to provide customer
satisfaction and support (who has the time to do that?).  They should not
look at the internet as destruction of their business, but as a means to
find new clients, generate sales, advertise their wares.  I find it
difficult to listen to dealers - since they prefer to complain when sales
aren't what they should be.  Competition is eating them away...  Many
dealers are doing it because it is a fairly easy job.  Just sit around all
day and wait around to make a buck.  Wanting to sell their goods for top
dollar, but looking to pay nothing for whatever comes in...
3.  Chances are (on a daily basis) we will find very few individuals who
have lots of money to spend who are searching the internet for
sportscards.  If they have lots of money, they obviously work hard for it
and are certainly not going to try and deal with every Tom*** and Harry
(young and old) in ordert to  complete a set or collection.  Those are the
guys we are all looking for.  I believe big dealers in BIG cities have a
better chance at them.  I keep thinking of New York as an example...  But
I can think of one instance in my small town (North Bay, Ontario -
population 45,000) where a bank manager enjoys going to the local cardshop
to acquire whatever items he wants to purchase...  And, he is not the only
one.  My point is, there is money to be made, BUT, it is difficult when
dealing on the NGs (where many parties are young people who are looking to
make a quick buck) or on eBay where one can find more than 1 of the same
product being sold...
4.  Yes Winston, the sportscard business is a complicated matter (since
everyone wants to make more money with cardboards).  The only advise I can
give you is - you need to focus on what you want to do.  Are you a true
collector?  Are you into it for the buck?  If you are a dealer, here's one
thing I've seen done both in Canada and in Germany - these two particular
dealers have built a clientelle over the years.  Twice a year, they bring
together some who like to buy wax and they have these waxbusting parties.
Their shops are closed to the general public.  The dealers pay for the
pizza and beer and ask who wants to buy into a certain box of the latest
product (prices are usually a little less - another 'gift' to the
client).  Usually six people will play.  By the end of the night, a dealer
can go through as many as 150 boxes (good sales).  The good cards that are
pulled can be kept by the winner or he can offer to sell them by
auction...  Either way, it's a lot of fun.
5.  If one looks at the big Toronto show (held twice a year) - lots of
dealers, lots of potential customers!  Ask yourself - is it a dying trade,
or should you be analyzing why those potential customers are walking
around?  Some come from across Canada, the U.S. and even Europe!
6.  Okay - as for Beckett:  It's nice to know there is a source out there
to visually see 'something' about the sportscard market.  I agree you'll
never find a true, honest publication, but golly gee, I believe it's
better than nothing?  In today's fast paced economy, how can they stay
a*** of pricing - especially when cards are being sold helter skelter?
Winston, I don't think you'll need to fly to India (like the Beatles) to
find the answer to whatever you are looking for.
7.  Phew!  I didn't mean to write a book, but I guess you brought
something up that is quite "HOT" on the minds of many...  Cheers, Bob

Quote:

> I was wondering what people thought about the state of todays hobby of
> sports card collecting.It appears to me that with the high price of
> wax.People becoming more and more  unwilling to pay anything for
> cards these days that the hobby is slowly sliping into a state of
> total demise.I mean even the big dealers that open a lot of product
> cannot continue to open a ton of wax and sell cards at 10%-15%
> of guide and  still stay in buissness.I agree that the internet has
> made it easier to be a collector.after all you have the whole world to
> do buissness with now.But because you now have so many places to buy
> the one or two cards that you need to finish off that set.And so many
> different price ranges to choose from.It will soon make it hard for
> the shops to stay afloat.I mean why buy packs at all.If you want a set
> you can buy it anytime on line for 25% of guide.Which is about 150%
> less than what it cost to build it.And than there is everybodys
> friend.Dr.Beckett!!Would someone please tell me where and when a card,
> I mean any card listed in Beckett sold for the price that they are
> listed for.So my question is,if the price guide is not going to be
> used,if no body is going to sell at those prices.Why do we all
> continue to make that son-of-a-gun rich by buying his publication.
> After all if you want to check on the state of the hobby.just check
> the internet.And please,for those of you(us) that think his grading
> service is not a conflict of interest than we are all asleep.I mean
> how can someone grade a card and than say it is worth so much money.
> And  make it apear that their service is surperior to everyone
> elses.Just a few of my thoughts these days and I would love to hear
> yours.I will answer each and every email I receive on this that is
> sent to me direct.I do not answer replies to the board.
> Thanks in advance,Winston B.Hart.

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.FoundCollection.com/ - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

 
 
 

what do you think

Post by Rich Davi » Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:44:17


You're right of course.  This is what I've been saying for the last two
years.  I never have bought one of Beckett's rags.  Their grading service
doesn't have a clue about how to grade vintage.  I laugh at them quite often
and they laugh at collectors all the way to the bank.  They split their
magazine into four separate rags to try and maximize periodical profits and
dummies fell for it.

<Why do we all
continue to make that son-of-a-gun rich by buying his publication.
After all if you want to check on the state of the hobby.just check
the internet.And please,for those of you(us) that think his grading
service is not a conflict of interest than we are all asleep.I mean
how can someone grade a card and than say it is worth so much money.
And  make it apear that their service is surperior to everyone
elses.Just a few of my thoughts these days and I would love to hear
yours.I will answer each and every email I receive on this that is
sent to me direct.I do not answer replies to the board.


Quote:
> I was wondering what people thought about the state of todays hobby of
> sports card collecting.It appears to me that with the high price of
> wax.People becoming more and more  unwilling to pay anything for
> cards these days that the hobby is slowly sliping into a state of
> total demise.I mean even the big dealers that open a lot of product
> cannot continue to open a ton of wax and sell cards at 10%-15%
> of guide and  still stay in buissness.I agree that the internet has
> made it easier to be a collector.after all you have the whole world to
> do buissness with now.But because you now have so many places to buy
> the one or two cards that you need to finish off that set.And so many
> different price ranges to choose from.It will soon make it hard for
> the shops to stay afloat.I mean why buy packs at all.If you want a set
> you can buy it anytime on line for 25% of guide.Which is about 150%
> less than what it cost to build it.And than there is everybodys
> friend.Dr.Beckett!!Would someone please tell me where and when a card,
> I mean any card listed in Beckett sold for the price that they are
> listed for.So my question is,if the price guide is not going to be
> used,if no body is going to sell at those prices.Why do we all
> continue to make that son-of-a-gun rich by buying his publication.
> After all if you want to check on the state of the hobby.just check
> the internet.And please,for those of you(us) that think his grading
> service is not a conflict of interest than we are all asleep.I mean
> how can someone grade a card and than say it is worth so much money.
> And  make it apear that their service is surperior to everyone
> elses.Just a few of my thoughts these days and I would love to hear
> yours.I will answer each and every email I receive on this that is
> sent to me direct.I do not answer replies to the board.
> Thanks in advance,Winston B.Hart.

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

 
 
 

what do you think

Post by Bill Fedderl » Wed, 18 Apr 2001 01:27:11


I have sold many cards above Beckett prices, the price guide means nothing
as far as I am concened.
I think collecting is broken down into 3 types of collectors.  Someone who
collects sets, someone who is a team collector, and someone who is a player
collector.  Well, I specialize in inserts, so if I can get all 3 of the
collectors going against each other for that cards they need, well the sky
is the limit.  I have sold a 1993 Stadium Club 1st day issue card that books
for $3  , for a $50 bill.  Now thats  a rare case, but if someone has been
searching for that card, and needs it, they will play or pass.

Here is my website,

        You will find over 100,000 insert cards on it.  Many are hard to
find and obscure.

http://webpages.charter.net/feds/Index.html


Quote:
> I was wondering what people thought about the state of todays hobby of
> sports card collecting.It appears to me that with the high price of
> wax.People becoming more and more  unwilling to pay anything for
> cards these days that the hobby is slowly sliping into a state of
> total demise.I mean even the big dealers that open a lot of product
> cannot continue to open a ton of wax and sell cards at 10%-15%
> of guide and  still stay in buissness.I agree that the internet has
> made it easier to be a collector.after all you have the whole world to
> do buissness with now.But because you now have so many places to buy
> the one or two cards that you need to finish off that set.And so many
> different price ranges to choose from.It will soon make it hard for
> the shops to stay afloat.I mean why buy packs at all.If you want a set
> you can buy it anytime on line for 25% of guide.Which is about 150%
> less than what it cost to build it.And than there is everybodys
> friend.Dr.Beckett!!Would someone please tell me where and when a card,
> I mean any card listed in Beckett sold for the price that they are
> listed for.So my question is,if the price guide is not going to be
> used,if no body is going to sell at those prices.Why do we all
> continue to make that son-of-a-gun rich by buying his publication.
> After all if you want to check on the state of the hobby.just check
> the internet.And please,for those of you(us) that think his grading
> service is not a conflict of interest than we are all asleep.I mean
> how can someone grade a card and than say it is worth so much money.
> And  make it apear that their service is surperior to everyone
> elses.Just a few of my thoughts these days and I would love to hear
> yours.I will answer each and every email I receive on this that is
> sent to me direct.I do not answer replies to the board.
> Thanks in advance,Winston B.Hart.

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----